Mon 28 Jan 2013
ADVENTURES IN COLLECTING: Whither Vintage Paperbacks? by Walker Martin.
Posted by Steve under Collecting , Columns[29] Comments
WHITHER VINTAGE PAPERBACKS?
by Walker Martin
In the 1970′s one of my main interests was collecting the Dell mapbacks. I remember at one point in the 1990′s I figured I had them all, but I’ve lost interest over the last decade or so and now I’m not sure. In the 70′s and even 80′s I was getting some good trades for my duplicates, including some original cover paintings.
Now, I’m not even sure I could get $5 each. I know at Pulpcon about 5 years ago, I had a table full of vintage paperbacks priced at $5 each and no one was interested except for the Guest of Honor. Larry Niven was so bored and ignored by pulp collectors that he wandered over and bought one paperback to read.
At the paperback show in NYC I saw many Dell Mapbacks priced at a couple bucks each.
The Doc asks about the prices of vintage paperbacks over the years. There are some exceptions of course with certain authors and oddball titles, but as a general rule and across the board, paperback prices have indeed gone down over the years.
I first started to seriously collect paperbacks in the 1960′s and 1970′s. I soon had enough Ace Doubles, Gold Medals, Dell Mapbacks, Signets, etc to fill what I call my paperback room. Many genres and titles would not fit into the room and are presently stored in my basement, such as western, SF, and mainstream novels.
At one time back in the 1970′s, I thought that prices would increase on vintage paperbacks but I was disappointed to find out that they decreased over the years. The internet probably had something to do with this because abebooks.com and ebay made it obvious that many paperbacks were not as rare as we once believed.
For instance before the internet I sold the 13 Hammett digest-sized paperbacks for a few hundred dollars. But after the internet it was apparent that these paperbacks were not rare (Jonathan Press, Mercury, Bestseller). Now they are available at far lower prices.
Each year I attend the NYC Paperback Convention put on by Gary Lovisi. There have been over 20 annual shows. The last few years the average price of many vintage paperbacks were a dollar or two. Many were priced at 2 or 3 for $5.00. Discounts were available for quantity buyers. I found the same thing at the Windy City Pulp Convention and PulpFest.
As I said, there are exceptions like Junkie and Jim Thompson firsts. But for the most part, paperback values have gone down since the 1970′s and 1980′s. In fact they have dropped so much that it’s not worth my time to bring them to sell at the conventions at $5 each. They won’t sell at that price and to sell at a buck or two is just like giving them away. I’ll keep them instead.
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Editorial Comment: This latest installment of Walker’s occasional columns for Mystery*File first appeared as a pair of comments following a review by Bill Deeck of Murders at Scandal House (1933) by the all-but-unknown Peter Hunt. What prompted a followup discussion of old paperbacks and the people who collect them was the fact that the most easily found copy of Scandal House would be the Dell mapback edition (#42) published in 1944.
January 28th, 2013 at 11:04 pm
I think that eBooks have contributed into the decline in paperback prices. All of the local exchange paperback stores that 20 years ago were full are now gone. No-one wants books any more – they take up too much room.
January 29th, 2013 at 2:41 am
Well, good to have this posted, as I think there are some collectors, or at least collecting is of interest to many, here on the blog.
Stan, you may be right about e-books,and, although they are not for me, the argument about room and weight is possibly valid.
I just took delivery of around a thousand books, mostly paperbacks, and they DO take up space, and the cartons ARE heavy to handle.
Man, where are we going ?
The Doc
January 29th, 2013 at 3:58 am
There’s a market for old Penguin paperbacks (try copies from the 1930s, the ones that originally had jackets). And the high grade paperbacks from the 1940s and 1950s.
I read an interesting article in the WSJ a few weeks ago about Kindle having peaked (just when I got one!). People do still like books, real books. There’s more interest though, I think, in old hardcovers, and of course the dust jackets.
January 29th, 2013 at 8:19 am
Stan: Certainly e-books have had an influence on the sale of books, especially those people who just want to read the book. But I’m a book collector and what I’m mainly talking about is the artifact itself which I think is a thing of beauty. I’ve been collecting books for over 50 years now and so have many of my friends.
You mention that nobody wants books anymore, they take up too much room. To a normal person who just wants to read, then maybe you have a point, though I still know many non-collectors who like the physical book over the e-book.
But book collectors like the look of the book, the smell of the pages and print, the dust jackets, the feel of a real book. I still have not bought an e-reader and I probably never will because I like having a houseful of books.
Anthony Powell, the author who wrote the great 12 book series, DANCE TO THE MUSIC OF TIME, even named one of the novels, BOOKS DO FURNISH A ROOM. They certainly have furnished my house!
January 29th, 2013 at 8:35 am
Doc: I recently took delivery of a thousand pulp magazines so I know what you mean about taking up space and the weight of the boxes. I figure it has to be a good sign that I’m still enthusiastic about reading and collecting. I’ll know I’m in serious trouble if I start to lose interest in collecting.
I agree that collecting is of interest to many on MYSTERY FILE and that’s one of the reasons I still post my thoughts about the fun and enjoyment and yes, even stress of collecting books and magazines.
Every morning I wake up thinking about what I’m going to read, what film noir or western I might watch. I’m still at the collecting game in a big way and I love talking with other collectors and meeting with them to discuss books.
Curtis: I see you mention “real books”. I find I’m more and more often referring to real books and fake books(e-books). As a collector, I’m all for the real books.
January 29th, 2013 at 9:48 am
Another reason for the decline of the prices of vintage paperbacks may be that the paperback originals often were the first and only editions of a book. But nowadays a lot of them have been reprinted by Stark House Press and other publishers. You don’t have to buy the old paperbacks when you want to read them.
On the other hand the prices of hardbacks with dustwrappers which are first editions in fine condition by authors like Ian Fleming or Ted Lewis have extremely increased over the years.
January 29th, 2013 at 12:05 pm
Back in the late 60s I looked at my bookshelves and discovered I was collecting old paperbacks. I found them in scrofulous old used-book stores at ten cents each or three-for-a-quarter which is what I paid for the Dell Hammett titles and some old Chandler and Woolrich stuff. Them wuz the days. One of the better used book stores downtown would often fill a table with pristine Ace doubles and put up a sign: “CHEAP-O TABLE”
In 1971 I came across Nevin’s ground-breaking NIGHTWEBS and realized there were others out there who shared my depraved tastes. And in ’74 I met the legendary Ellen Nehr, and actually hooked up with other collectors.
But just a couple years later, the American Comic Book Co. put out their PAPERBACK PRICE GUIDE and everything went through the roof and into the stratosphere. Soon, as someone put it, “Rare books are getting hard to find.”
Walker, you may be right that some of the interest (and price)is on the wane, but I never considered my books an investment, and I get a great deal more pleasure now going through bins at Pulpfest and finding stuff I can actually afford.
January 29th, 2013 at 12:39 pm
Dan, I have to say that I agree absolutely with your last paragraph. I’ve never bought my books with the thought of making a profit, etc. It’s just that I buy so much and in so many lots, that I end up with alot of duplicates. That’s when I resell things and then I happen to notice that the prices have changed, etc.
For instance all the paperbacks that I had at Pulpcon five years ago were duplicates. I remember Steve and I talking about how it was funny that vintage paperbacks seemed to be of less interest to collectors than in prior years.
Back in the 1960’s and early 1970’s I had a job that required me to travel and I’d always stop in the used bookstores of the different cities. Back then there were not that many paperback collectors and like you, I found many hundreds of vintage paperbacks cheaply priced. That’s when I acquired the majority of my paperbacks at a dime apiece or two for a quarter.
One big blunder I made was not buying the thousands of soft core pornography paperbacks offered to me at pennies apiece. I never figured anyone would bother to collect the things. I was so wrong! They seemed to have kept their value and some of covers are outrageous and bizarre.
January 29th, 2013 at 12:42 pm
It’s all about rarity. No matter what we collect (authors, genres, publishers, etc), we tend to acquire the most available items first … which leaves holes in our collections that are generally reserved for the rarest.
Let’s look at some hard facts. Take, for example, “Dead Yellow Women,” by Dashiell Hammett, which was printed for the first time in book format as Dell Mapback #308. One run only of 175,000 in 1949. But there was a reprint (Dell #421), two runs in 1950 totaling a little more than 77,000. So, assuming that people don’t throw away books, there may be close to a quarter million copies of that title either in people’s collections or still floating around.
Recently, I was stunned to find a copy of Avon #162 for sale on the internet. I snatched it up for $300. “Avon Complete Crosswords” is a book that WAS thrown away after use, thereby creating an automatic scarcity. Once again, following my purchase, there are no copies for sale … in any condition, at any price, anywhere in the world. People who own them can name their own price (if they know what they have. That’s a big “if”).
It’s all supply and demand. Unfortunately, the numbers are working against us. As adult children climb attic stairs to bring down their parent’s boxes of books to sell on ebay, more and more of these gems are resurfacing.
As for ebooks … those are for reading, not collecting. Vintage paperbacks are actually limited-edition prints with books attached. They are visual thrills for bibliophiles.
January 29th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
A topic that draws a lot of interest here on the blog, Walker !
The Doc
January 29th, 2013 at 1:12 pm
I find there are still a lot of people in Chicago who are interested in vintage paperbacks. The prices in the used stores here are reasonable but not at the giveaway level. For giveaway prices (and usually books in horrible condition) you can find vintage paperbacks at library and fundraising book sales out here. I’m not only talking of Chicago, but the entire Midwest.
I still think there is a market for collectible paperbacks, but the buyers are fewer than before. Science fiction and “sleaze” (Beacon, Midway, Novel Library and similar outfits with nearly nude women and men on the covers) are also still popular if not exactly “hot” markets with collectors. I am still buying vintage paperbacks. I’m not at all concerned in them as investments hoping that value increase again, but I’m buying more than ever because the scarce ones that used to be priced exorbitantly I find are now very affordable. True, there are still “legendary” books like Junkie, the early Lion Library Thompsons, most of the Woolrich/Irish paperbacks, and select GGA/Belarski/other collectible artists’ books that seem to be staying at the top of the range, but for the most part I can find paperbacks in good to very good condition of the titles I have wanted for decades in the $6 – $10 range. On occasion I will pay up to $20-$30 for a exceedingly scarce copy in superior condition, but hardly more. Oh! One exception: paid $40 for a Boileau-Narcejac title last year because I knew it was a very rare book and would probably never find another copy in my lifetime.
January 29th, 2013 at 2:05 pm
Walker, if you bought those books “at a dime apiece or two for a quarter” I think you wuz had.
January 29th, 2013 at 3:36 pm
Bruce in Comment #9 mentions the dreaded subject of the crossword puzzle books. Collectors trying to compile a complete set of certain paperbacks have broken down and cried when this subject comes up.
Somehow I managed to find the Dell crossword books but it’s a puzzle to me how I managed!(Pun not intended). The only way you can find these things is if the buyer never gets around to doing the crosswords. Because the minute the crossword puzzles are done, into the garbage goes the book.
January 29th, 2013 at 3:45 pm
Dan in Comment #12 logically points out that a “dime apiece or two for a quarter” does not make sense. But back then in those days when paperbacks were so cheap, I didn’t argue and gladly paid such ridiculous prices.
Besides, Steve is a retired math professor and I know he needs a laugh every now and then to remind him of his teaching days.
January 29th, 2013 at 5:37 pm
Hey we were all young & crazy in those days. Or at least crazy.
January 29th, 2013 at 7:10 pm
I have to confess that I used to buy paperbacks to read (in the 60’s 70’s and 80’s) but now I mostly buy and collect them for the covers.
January 29th, 2013 at 7:51 pm
We collect memories .
The Doc
January 29th, 2013 at 9:03 pm
One thing that has definitely increased in value is collecting paperback cover art, the original paintings used for the covers. When I first started picking up the art in the 1970’s, the average price I was paying was a couple hundred dollars a painting.
Now paperback covers for vintage books often start at a couple thousand and go up from there. Pulp cover paintings are even more expensive since they are usually from an earlier period.
January 30th, 2013 at 7:45 am
Yes indeed Walker, I well remember the Good Old Days of the 1970’s when it seemed I could find boxes of Dells, Populars, etc. at something like ten cents each. I am glad now that I flipped most of them in the 80’s for much higher prices and used the $$ to buy pulps.
January 30th, 2013 at 7:49 am
Glad you mentioned e-readers Walker. My son keeps asking me why I don’t get a kindle but I so much prefer to have a real book in my hands when I read. The thought of reducing all my books and pulps to a Kindle depresses the heck out of me.
January 30th, 2013 at 8:24 am
Barry mentions the good old days of the 1970’s when you could find boxes of vintage paperbacks for a dime each. I mentioned above how I had a job that allowed me to travel all over the tri-state area and visit the used bookstores also.
Once I had an important business meeting with a large employer. Not only was I late because I had spent too much time groveling for rare paperbacks in an old store but I also had dusty smears all over my suit.
As the meeting progressed the owner of the business called in several of his associates and we all sat around an enormous table. Forgetting that I had stuffed a couple dozen garish Lions, Aces, and Dells into my attache case, I opened it to get some papers and out spilled the paperbacks. Many of the covers showed women in distress in various stages of undress and of course non-collectors do not understand paperback art at all. In fact they find it offensive. Needless to say, the meeting did not last much beyond that point.
Shortly after, I was promoted and my traveling days were over. I’ve often wondered if I was kicked upstairs because of my habit of visiting bookstores. At any rate I now had more money to spend on books!
February 1st, 2013 at 11:52 pm
My wife and I have been selling paperbacks since 1975. We specialize in the rare and vintage paperbacks of all genres. We had a lady who had been looking for 15-20 years for a certain vintage paperback with a good girl art cover instead of the regular cover. We happened to have the copy she was looking for. It turns out her mother was the model for the good girl art cover.
Not only is the cover art gorgeous, but doing the research on the artists and author pseudonyms as well as hearing the stories that go with these books is so interesting and fascinating.
February 2nd, 2013 at 12:04 am
Wayne
Would you care to identify the book (and cover) in question?
February 2nd, 2013 at 10:43 am
Collecting and collectors’ experiences hold quite some interest for all, even us ‘just-readers-non-collectors’ ,whose only collection are the books they bought and read over the years .
Good thread, Walker, as always .
The Doc
February 2nd, 2013 at 4:19 pm
Wayne in Comment #22 mentions the stories that go with the subject of paperback collecting and make it even more interesting. One of my favorite stories is how I spent over 30 years hunting for a paperback rack or display stand; the ones that you used to see in the 1950’s made out of medal or wood and advertising Dell, Gold Medal, Signet, Pocketbook, etc. Now they are just about impossible to find.
Finally, a few years ago at the Windy City Convention in Chicago, I found 5 of the things. It took the dealer a couple years to finally find a safe way to deliver them to me but now they all are in my paperback room.
February 9th, 2013 at 5:36 pm
Steve,
We filled the request 5-7 years ago. I believe it was published by Pocket and had more than one cover. It might have been Turquoise by Anya Seton #534.
February 9th, 2013 at 5:37 pm
Both covers can be found here –
http://www.bookscans.com/Oddities/turquoise.htm
February 9th, 2013 at 5:52 pm
Thanks, Wayne. Those are both interesting covers, but I kind of like the one with the model myself. I also like the story you told about the model’s daughter, looking for the right cover.
February 10th, 2013 at 1:39 am
One of the more interesting examples of models was the cover of WESTERN STORY MAGAZINE, October 16, 1937. It was the first use of a photograph for a cover by the magazine and showed two cowboys with their horses. For many years I simply thought it was two obscure B-western actors. The issue itself gives no clue to the identities of the two men.
Recently artist David Saunders who runs a pulp artist website, told me a story he had heard from an artist’s daughter. Prolific artist H.W. Scott who did many covers for WESTERN STORY and Lorence Bjorklund, who did many interior illustrations for the magazine, were the models used on the Oct 16, 1937 cover.
The cover shows H.W. Scott telling Bjorklund to “stick ’em up”. An interesting image showing the close relationship and friendship between the two artists and WESTERN STORY.